Steven_S wrote:Chip,

Yes I agree with most of what you write in your previous post, and I think it is important to point out that although I often speak of particles such as protons and electrons I really see them as a wave. To me the proton and the electron is the peak and trough of a sine wave. Such waves take on different appearance depending on the observers potential. We normally speak of waves that are generated at ground potential, such as radiowaves, these are generated by a machine with one leg on the ground, so the wave oscillates either side of ground. For such a wave GP theory says that the peak and the trough propagate at the same wave speed \(U_{xx} = U_{tt}\) , U being the wave height i.e potential, but when the observers potential is elevated, this is no longer the case.

I accept that, the problem I have is multidimensional, if what I think is true, then the potential is higher because the nuclei, especially proton, have a higher potential than realized because part of it is not 'observable'; please bear with me. We're covering a lot of ground in a short period of time. I realize that you're trying to put this and keep it in frame with 3D, and a lot of your equations are 1D, and potential does originate at ZP; but, there is a lot of support for more dimensions. I think we'd agree that if your equations related one dimensionally, that the potential does spread through 3D, at least, so we'd agree that the full potential radiates in 3D at least. I propose that we see it that way, that sets it as a constant, and as the proton is a 3D particle or wave, I don't have a problem thinking about it in forms of natural numbers; In fact I prefer using pure phase, and don't like to normalize it as everyone else does, because I lose the potentials. Also, I don't discount time as a dimension; but, feel it propagates through the ZP (Zero Point), which would be why this potential is felt everywhere. So, the main conflict I see is what happens when you realize there may be a dimension or more we don't see, or observe, then the potential could be higher than we can measure in reality, but as far as existence goes, higher existentially.

Examining dimensionality beyond 3D, when we constructively add two waves propagating in the same direction having a 180° phase differential along one or more planes. This creates a destructive interference which brings both potentials to the same state at that point in time, which you say is annihilation. However, due to eigenstates, which is simply the difference of squares having the same value, but answers which are conjugates of each other. See optical phase conjugation for constructive, destructive interference has been largely ignored by most other than myself. For potential we'll say \((x+iy)(x+iy)\) [this is referred to as a sum of squares because the two y values are imaginary and when multiplied create a difference of squares, and create real numbers, or observable and measurables which we observe and are real as in reality vs complex, which I claim exist, but are not directly observable, with exceptions which need a lot of explanation. More on that in another post.], where i is the magnetic field property in the y direction, or i sin θ, and of course COS is the potential, which in my studies we must use for relating the magnetic field, which goes hand and fist with moving potential, even rotating ones. I believe it's intrinsically understood that wave cancellation is not destruction, but causes a 90° translation along the principle plane even with real numbers as a difference of squares \((x^2-y^2)\), which produces complex inner products, we see this when we use coils and capacitors where the potential and current are out of phase by 90° in the time plane, this is because the magnetic field is time shifted.

When these two are out of phase, it changes the potential power and the power becomes zero because the magnetic vectors are sufficient to cancel the potential in our 3D space; but, propagate it to the imaginary or real 4th dimension (not time) because the wave function is actually 4D and it shows up there, the whole field has been translated rotationally, which is why they appear to cancel in 3D, not anihillate. The potential, or energy is not destroyed. This is critical.

This is like the GP problem in that it is how you approach the problem in thinking about relationships. This goes fundamentally to the concept that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So, the question, what happens when it it appears to be destroyed, destruction is an illusion, it is simply translated along a orthogonal path which is orthogonal to the 3D we see as reality. The imaginary axis of complex numbers has long been used in EM theories, and do not negate potentials or your theory. It just shows how they can reach a ground state without annihilation. One might think that if we can't observe it in reality or our 3D frame of reference, it ceases to exist. However, we see potentials as wave function go through zero with respect to one another all the time, and the wave function appears to disappear (or collapse) where the paths of the potentials cross; but they always re-emerge on the other side of the interference paths translated rotationally. One aspect of this is known as the pilot wave theory, mine is a derivative of it.

Ironically, I think this puts us at odds, maybe, maybe not... follow me. Because I see wave cancellation as the key to understanding. It explains fringing, wave interference patterns, and a whole cartload of other things. Since everything is made of energy potentials, it's easy to assume they are destroyed in cancellation. However, it appears they only rotate dimensionally, and for us that means, out of view, or become unobservable, or indirectly observable.

Metrology is the science of measuring the observables. In the entanglement experiments where we find a violation of Bell's inequality theorems we do find that entangled states do produce a wave which propagates at around 10k times the speed of light. I find that interesting as you list that as the difference in potential.

Steven_S wrote:GP says that the crest and the trough ought to propagate at different speeds when observed from a potential other than the middle, and that the velocity of propagation relative to the observer is \(\Delta v = c*(\frac{\Delta \phi}{\Phi})\) , where \(\Phi\) is the proton potential.

I work in pure phase, and only use the speed of light when translating into 3D, however in pure phase I do not always normalize the function in order that I might retain the potentials because I feel the potential is intrinsic to the wave function (most QM normalizes the wave function, as they're only interested in what's observable, for obvious reasons). Since energy or potentials radiate in 3D, that has to be \(c^3\) If I'm keeping your phi's and Phi's straight, it appears you're only talking about 1D + phase, or compared to maximum potential.

Steven_S wrote:The proton potential in GP is a constant, and functions the same way as c (velocity of light) does in the standard model, and as you seem to agree, so far we have looked at a lot of particles, and frankly we haven't found a particle more positive than a proton nor have we found one more negative than an electron, and I doubt we will, so these are the minima and maxima points in GP.

The potential of the electron is therfore a function of the observers ground potential and as far as I understand, ground potential is falling (this is what we perceive as universe expansion), so this means the mass/energy of the electron is changing over time, this is where we need your expertise in metrology, as you may be able to predict how long it will take to masure the mass change in the electron, and when they announce it, groundpotential.org may get a few more hits.

Patience is a virtue...

Yes, I have a lot of it; I too am looking for people to disprove my theory, also. ;-)

The problem that may arise from showing changes in mass is that the ISL (International Standards Laboratory), and NIST with their CODATA recently announced that they were tying the standard units of measurement to known constants in the universe. If this is the case, then we may not see the change in mass, if they change relative to each other as long as they maintain the same relationship one to another. By doing this, they're pre-empting anyone noticing the changes unless only one of them changes, which it does seem you're suggesting. I saw your one image of the proton/electron annihilation, and I'm not sure how the mass of the electron gets less, since we lost one proton, and one electron. But, bear with me, I have an alternate proposal regarding geometry, and dimensionality as we know that any technology out of EM like radio, television, etc. evolved out of complex number theory and the introduction of i \(\sqrt-1\), to science.

So, if I'm understanding you right, you're saying that because the electron is so much lower, as the ground potential, it would lose mass. I'm not sure why you're saying it will lose mass. I know we have entropy, which is just energy changing wavelength to lower longer frequencies, or slower rotational momentum. We don't really see a change in the potential, just a change in angular velocity, which after a fashion is a change in mass. So, everything will eventually go red shifted; since all this is related to time, it may be difficult to see this if our time frames change in relation to this shift, as time as a propagating wave my also shift with respect to this, because in relativity, a change in mass is a shift in gravity, and time flow is related to gravity when compared to the speed of light. We always share a time frame with respect to our local gravity influences.

What I find interesting is that quantized angular momentum, or the spin of particles (wave interactions) turns out to be faster than light. In other words, the interference patterns, or the crossover of energy cancellations that occur when the waves conjugate can travel faster than light. I'm thinking this may be related to your potentials you mention.

Have you given any thought to the information we've learned from the entanglement tests, and proofs just released this year? I can link you to an article.

Steven_S wrote:

Steven

PS: Just on the issue of quarks, realise according to GP, the proton is a half wave, so it consists of a rise, a peak and a fall, three different potential gradients within the same half wave, neither of which can exist in it's own right. That sounds a lot like quarks to me ;)

[quote="Steven_S"]

Well naturally, that's a lot of protons and neutrons. ;-) As I was saying earlier, the half wave can exist (as in 3D) because the other half is in the 4th or complex direction. It's really the only way to describe the 1/2 spin integers we get in the standard models; and the 1/3 charges we see with quarks. If we think this way, a half wave is all there is, the other half is like the anti-matter version of a wave; only with energy, as in potentials, there is not destruction, only an establishment of potential in another direction. So, if you can think of it this way. The potentials when negating each other, create the central ground potential of negation by doing a translational, lateral spread so that it appears as zero from one plane, but shows up in another. Since we normally think in 3D, we don't see the 4th dimension except at times indirectly. However, if there's a 4th, then by implicit intuitive observation, there could be more.

Magnetism has always fascinated me. A long time ago, I asked... "If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, then where does it go, when it seems to disappear in destructive interference. Apparently it is translated 90°, sometimes we see this in our 3D and other times we do not.

I have a spreadsheet I'm working on which is a model of what I think an electron must be. It's very simple, but it provides simple observable concepts which shows both the Electro, and magnetic vectors, gives a 1/2 spin and has 3 nodes of 1/3 charge. This is because it's defined in 4 dimensions. Which means it takes 720° to make a full turn, not 360°. This would be referred to as a n-sphere of 4 dimensions. We have two spheres that spin in harmonics of each other, this gives them a fixed; but floating or translational nodes. With an n-sphere, as it rotates, we can only see 3D of it, because we are constrained in 3D to only seeing 3D. However, the whole n-sphere is such that it takes 720° because while one of the waves is 2π in 4D the other is 4π in 4D. So one wave is twice the frequency of the other. When these potentials add in 4D, we get to see a 3D cross section which has all the properties of an electron, with fixed nodes. There is also another harmonic of this first n-sphere, another n-sphere within the first n-sphere which has harmonics that are also related by two frequncies that are 2π to 4π ratios, but in this case the ratio between the two n-spheres is also a 2π to 4π relationship. This gives a π, 2π, 4π relationship. the single π comes into play because it is actually 2π, but only 1π is in 3D, while the other is imaginary, in the 4th Dimension, not time... or perhaps it is; but, I think not, because I see time coming from ZP, and it's another wave function overlaying the whole process, at 1/2 planck. Using π as a pure phase, this gives harmonics at π, 2π, 4π and 8π, with the 3D only ever seeing 1/2 of the last 3 at any given time frame, we can express this in real numbers as 1π, and you can square that as many times as you want, and still get 1π, 2π, 2²π and 2³π.

This produces the 1/3 relationship of charge, the 1/2 relationship of spin and phase, and I expect gives us the results of the entanglement test without violating relativity at the planck level, such that particles separated by space, but connected by time, are still connected through the ZP (a special case of 1π, which is actually very complex and for a later discussion) , and confined, and their relationship is bound by 16π in 4D, which as a ratio where the electron potential is 1eV² -> 1eV⁸ in 4D == sqrt(1eV²) -> sqrt(1eV⁸), therefore 1eV --> 10⁴eV or 10,000eV for potentials, unless I've screwed up the math somewhere. What I'm seeing is that the electron is a photon wave bundle bound by higher potential waves, which explains why the standard model is unable to get anything but photons out of exciting an electron because the application of potentials below the potential of the binding energy produces only lower energy photons. If this is the case, then yes, it's a lot of quarks, which may also be made of smaller energy potentials, and the reason why you see the potential of the nuclei being what they are is defined by it's geometry in n-dimensions, in this case 4 or more. So, there's way more potential than what we see, and the proton potential is the potential confined to 3D. As you said, it seems really simple when looking at this from the perspective of potentials. We may not be at odds at all.

So, I'm seeing Tex is much like with MS Word's equation editor, I'll improve as I get used to it. I love how it's invoked, great job! Well, my daughter just showed up, so I've got to run. This is not complete or clean by any means, we can talk more, if you're still interested. So, I'll just post this as is for now. I think we have some common ground to work from; I really do. This may be a piece missing to my understanding for my theory. I'm happy to collaborate with anyone. I also believe in open source.